EPISODE 17 – What is a Death Doula?

 Death isn’t just a medical event — it’s a deeply human experience. In this episode, Jamie Callahan sits down with Angela Franklin, a death midwife (also called a death doula or end-of-life doula), to explore how she supports individuals and families through life’s final chapter with compassion, presence, and practical guidance.

They discuss:

• How death doulas complement — and go beyond — hospice and palliative care
• The emotional, spiritual, and logistical support they provide
• Creating a “death plan” and reducing fear at the end of life
• Oregon’s Death with Dignity Act and how families can navigate it
• Home funerals, burial options, and honoring personal wishes

Whether you’re facing a terminal illness, supporting a loved one, or simply want to understand your options, this conversation offers a new perspective on dying well and living fully until the end.

📞 Questions? Call Team Senior at (541) 295-8230.

Transcript

Jamie Callahan: Hi, this is Jamie Callahan with the Team Senior Podcast. Our goal is to simplify aging society, grooms us to plan for retirement, but what about life beyond retirement, where the rubber meets the road? Perhaps you've had a stroke or you've been diagnosed with cancer, or maybe you're forgetting things and now you have dementia.
That's our area of expertise and we are here to share our insight. And now the Team Senior podcast. Hello everyone. This is Jamie Callahan and I am in the studio today with. Someone who has a very significant and very unique role in Southern Oregon. Angela Franklin is here to introduce what she does and who she is.
So I'm gonna turn it over to you.

Angela Franklin: I am a death midwife anddeath doula, end of life doula. There's lots of different names for it, but I tend to go by a death midwife and I provide non-medical support for people who are experiencing a terminal illness
and also way before even a terminal illness. There's a lot of work that I do out in the community and with individuals.

Jamie Callahan: I love the term midwife.
When we look at, birthing people, this is like your way into the world. You're helping people as a midwife on kind of their way out of the world and connecting them with all the resources and things that are available, as well as being I would assume, an emotional support.
So for those who aren't familiar, What do you do and how is it different from say, hospice or palliative care?

Angela Franklin: Yeah, so a, death doula or a death midwife provides a service that is can be integrated into palliative and hospice care. So it's not separate but it can be separate. We have different areas in Oregon that do not have hospice, and so a death doula would be an amazing resource to utilize in those situations.
And so a death doula provides emotional, spiritual. Practical, lots of different types of support and every death doula is different. So that can look like advanced care planning. It can look like providing supports in finding supports for people who would like to spend their last, parts of their life in home rather than out in a facility or even going to facilities in different care communities to provide services. Basically. A person who is able to have a bird's eye view of a person's end of life situation and to know enough about the dying process and about resources and different.
Supports and to be able to see like, where are the gaps, where are the barriers what are the things that kind of need to be done and to be able to help a person work towards those things.

Jamie Callahan: And I would imagine also making sure that they have all of the parts and pieces in place that we've talked about in previous settings.
Like for example, when you have, even if you were coming alongside someone as a midwife and they have hospice in place just ensuring that they have other things in place that are important. All of your funeral preparation and your wishes around, how you want to be buried and if you want to be buried.
I know that this is another really great area of expertise that you have. So share with us a little bit about those specifics.

Angela Franklin: Yeah the reason why I refer to myself as a death midwife and not a death doula is because my training and the things that I do extend way before. The last moments of a death to after the last breath.
And so I do home funeral support for people and do lots of education around that.
Jamie Callahan: I'm really getting to, what other things that you help a family get connected with. Bring to their attention, support them through because hospice does a lot of those things, but I know the services that you provide are way above and beyond what Hospice does.
Okay. Yeah. In a much more personal way.

Angela Franklin: When we think about hospice and we think about the time that hospice spends with a family we have. A few hours a week where a aide comes, we have a few hours a week where a spiritual advisor comes a few visits from a nurse. And there's a lot of moving pieces and there isn't necessarily one person who's able to really.
Navigate and see all of those parts moving. And so oftentimes when I go to a person who I've been referred to or reaches out to me, I ask what's their understanding of what's going on? What are some of the things that you would like to, make happen or work on or to process before you die.
And a death doula is someone who is not medicalizing death. Like death and dying is. A very small part of that is actually medical. The majority of our dying experience is a social experience, and we as a culture we flip that.

Jamie Callahan: Sure.

Angela Franklin: And so oftentimes a death doula is coming in not with fear.
But with curiosity

Jamie Callahan: and probably removing the need or the, maybe not need, that's not the right word, removing the focus on the health. Piece of this, like the medications, the diagnosis, the suffrage, all of those things, and really looking more at, what does a good death mean to you? The supports around spiritual, cultural, personal beliefs, all of those things.
Can you walk us through what that might look like?

Angela Franklin: Yeah. So this term a good death. So when we think about birthing. And we work with doctors and maybe midwives around a birth plan. So a death doula will do the same thing. So let's make a death plan. Like how do you want this to look? And let's figure out how to make it happen.
What are the supports needed? What are the conversations that need to be had, tying up the different loose ends and really like figuring out like. Where the, where's the suffering and that looks, maybe like spiritual and emotional. We're doing everything possible to reduce suffering.
And one of the biggest things that increases someone's suffering is fear.

Angela Franklin: we know also that fear is amplified by pain. And our physical pain is also amplified by emotional and spiritual pain. So the more that we can, peel away all of these things around someone, we can really.
Make it easier for someone to be fully present and conscious with their end of life and I'm not afraid of discomfort. I am really good at being with someone who is in discomfort, and a lot of times people just need that presence, who is not trying to fix them, who's not trying to avoid the fact that they're dying and can sit with them and even have them talk about it in a way that isn't being pacified.
By, toxic positivity. Like you can't, you have to stay positive. We're gonna fight this this idea that we have to fight death.

Jamie Callahan: I feel like that gives a an unneeded pressure to the person that is probably just trying to relax and let go, and everyone's gonna fail. Because we all die.
I feel like you gave a great analogy when you talked about how a death midwife is similar to, giving birth. So in, in terms of not being hyper-focused on the medical piece of it. So when a baby is coming, nobody's hyper-focused on the medical piece of it. Everybody's hyperfocused on the baby that's coming, and it's something to celebrate.
I'm not gonna go as far as to say that we're celebrating death, but it does really. Put this in perspective, right? So in the beginning of life, everyone's celebrating you, the baby that's coming in the end of life. What a wonderful opportunity to not be hyper-focused on the medical piece of it either and just be focused on the human being that the human nature piece of this.
Angela Franklin: Yeah. And we, like I said, we all are going to die and the more that we can accept that. And work towards being okay with that. So as a death midwife, I don't wanna die anytime soon. Neither do I. I am excited about my dying experience. And what that could look like,

Jamie Callahan: especially if you get to be surrounded by people that can support you, truly support you through that.

Angela Franklin: Yeah. And not everyone has a good death either. So that is the question of a good death often comes from privilege a. So can we shift our thoughts on being less focused on a good death and being more focused on like acceptance and being okay with whatever happens? Sure. And that's like the deeper practice as a death midwife is, it, can I be okay with whatever happens?

Jamie Callahan: So I wanna pivot for a moment here and just bring to light something that is unique in Oregon. Oregon is won a few states with the Death with Dignity Act. How would you support clients through exploring that path?

Angela Franklin: So I have supported clients through that process.
And oftentimes most simply is just education around what it looks like. What the eligibility is for it. And then, once that happens, then usually bringing in family members and discussing this with family members, airing any sort of concerns or fears. And and then being the either connecting to other organizations like End of Life Choices Organ that has volunteers and will help people through the entire process.
Connecting to them or being physically present and being that presence of non-judgment and compassion while they're doing something that is not the easy way out.

Jamie Callahan: Sure. So for folks that aren't super familiar with what the Death With Dignity Act is who is somebody that can do that?
And just so everyone understands, how does that work? Yeah, so you have to have a six month or less terminal illness and you have two different doctors a consulting and a prescribing doctor. Two different people have to say, yes, this person has six months or less to live and they are able to be prescribed medication that will is.
Angela Franklin: Fatal. And that process can, it's at least 15 days is the process that it takes. You can get expedited for extreme suffering reasons but not everyone, gets accepted into that. So it's a process and it's. It is a huge relief and very hard to some people. So there's a lot of support that is available for people that, decide to go through that for friends and family around them, I'm sure.

Jamie Callahan: Is it something that you can execute at home or do you have to be in a healthcare setting?

Angela Franklin: Typically you are at home. And there are some facilities that will let you do that in their facility. You have to investigate that beforehand. Yeah, if you are in a assisted living, independent living, in an adult foster home, check in with the person who's there.
They may not, allow that to happen. But there are always alternatives that can be supported in finding another space that would welcome a person to take the medication at that location.

Jamie Callahan: Okay. Understood. So I think what you're saying is that it's likely that the caregiver or the medical administration person what do they call them?
They're the person that gives out like a med aid is likely not going to be distributing. These medications to someone, it's probably going to be a loved one that is coming into that setting to help you with this. Yeah. And you have to be able to self administer the medication. No one can do it for you.

Angela Franklin: And you also have to be, having a legal decision making capacity. There are some illnesses that are terminal and they, you would not qualify.
Jamie Callahan: So if you have dementia, you don't really have capacity to make that decision, but you have a terminal illness, it's causing you to suffer and you don't really have the option to do this.
Yeah. 'cause by

Angela Franklin: the time you're six months or less. You typically do not have the decision making capacity, so you wouldn't be eligible. Or if you have Parkinson's or a LS, by the time you would be considered six months or less, you physically wouldn't be able to self-administer. Self-administer.

Jamie Callahan: Okay,

Angela Franklin: so those are.

Jamie Callahan: Yeah,

Angela Franklin: some of the barriers.

Jamie Callahan: Very interesting. Those are definitely things that I had not ever considered before. Yeah. I have this picture of what this would look like, but those are really great tidbits of information to have. How do families know when it's the right time to reach out to a midwife, a death midwife?

Angela Franklin: I think definitely if someone has a terminal diagnosis that would be the time to reach out. Even if someone is not on hospice that is okay. Just doing advanced directives, the earlier the better. So if someone needs help to figure out. How are they gonna be able to manage the end of life timeframe?
Are they going to be able to have enough supports? Are they gonna need more caregivers? Are there any issues? Happening among family members. If a person has a lot of anxiety, a lot of death, anxiety, that's a really great time to bring in a death doula.

Jamie Callahan: And could this be applicable to the individual that, has this prognosis, but it could maybe also be applicable to the family members that just need to be supported in the right way?

Angela Franklin: Yeah. Oftentimes the focus initially is on the individual who's dying, but then it extends. It like then starts, extending out and it's the family and the friends, the caregivers, and then the community. And I've also have midwifed, hospice workers and caregivers at assisted living.
People who, you would assume would have an understanding. But not everyone does. And so even some of the hospice workers have, some more medicalized ideas around end of life, and then there's some hospice workers that are amazing that I'm like, you're a death midwife. You may not consider yourself, but I consider you a death midwife because you are seeing the whole picture here.
Yeah. Did you ever know Judy Hill? Oh, the name's familiar. I don't know. So Jeff Hill is a nurse that for a very long time taught the Inuring quality care class for somebody to get licensed as an adult foster home. And her area of focus has always been end of life. She was just this beautiful human being that really talked people through how when you have done this enough times you really need to collaborate with other folks that are also doing this.

Jamie Callahan: Because it helps to broaden your horizon, but it also, I think, helps you to support each other, right? It's like an Alzheimer's support group. These folks that are weathering end of life over and over with families that are in crisis and duress and so sad and the anxiety, if I think of my mother passing away right now, I can feel my heart starting to beat faster.
That's a horrifying kind of thought to me. So I can only imagine what healthcare providers feel like. Doing this day in and day out.

Angela Franklin: Yeah. And I really got that understanding when my mom was dying. I come from a family of medical providers. My brother is a surgical rn. My dad is a nurse anesthetist.
My mom was a RN and my other brother. Was studying to be an RN and I have a background as a community herbalist also. So when my mom was dying I was reaching out to my brother and his wife who was an rn and I was asking all these questions and it became very obvious that medical providers are only trained to keep people alive.

Jamie Callahan: Fascinating and no truer statement, right? Yeah. And I take a code. There's a code too that is their job, their number one job.

Angela Franklin: Yeah. And it wasn't until that experience, I was like, wow. The person that I had been assuming was the person that would be able to tend to my mom in the dying experience was actually the worst because they couldn't accept.
The fact that she was dying. Sure. And they didn't have a lot of insight. And I remember the moment when I. I had that shift and it changed the entire experience. When I realized I was secretly hoping that she was gonna live, we're gonna find some way to get her better. And this the entire first three days I was with her, it was like, okay, what herbal things can we do? What can we, make sure she eats and, all these different things. And then I talked to a mentor of mine and she asked me, are you helping your mom live? Are you helping your mom die? And I was like, oh.
And as soon as I made that shift and I'm like, no, she's not getting better, I'm gonna help her die. And then that changed everything. I was able to be fully present with my mom. Know I was able to really accept. The medications and the different things that she was utilizing with hospice and to ask questions
 about it.

Jamie Callahan:
That's such a good point. We have a family friend that is going through this process right now. It was a rapid diagnosis where six weeks ago they were wildly capable teaching a workout class, and in the course of the last six weeks, they are on hospice with a diagnosis that nobody could have seen coming.
And it's really hard to. See this happen. And what I've witnessed from every friend and family member and medical professional in their own family is that everybody's trying to find the solution, right? Try this experimental thing, do this drug trial, all the things. But fortunately, the individual that.
This is happening to, and their closest family, they know what they want and they're really just trying to optimize the quality of time that they have together here in the last few days. Which I brings me to my next question for you. If you were to give advice today to families that are trying to become more comfortable talking about death, whether it's with themselves or with others or with their own family members, what do you recommend?
How do they start those conversations?

Angela Franklin: This is a really hard question because there's it's not a natural thing for us to necessarily want to talk about death and dying. But. I think the more we engage with people who are at end of life, the more we are going to learn how to support each other.
So instead of being avoidant of death by all means, and having that fear just to really, be curious. So when when these things come up in you and you're confronted with end of life and death and dying to be aware of what is coming up for you, and instead of turning away from that, turn towards it and be able to examine like, why am I having such a difficult time with this?
What is the root of the issue? Is it. Fear or, of losing a relationship, what does that mean? There's a lot of fear. 

Jamie Callahan: There's a lot who you're living behind, right? Yeah. If I, something were to happen to me today, I have young kids, so that's terrifying to me. I wanna see them be in a place where they can launch successfully before I'm not here to help them launch.
But I would imagine every person that's, that is facing death. Is challenged with their own set of things that they are afraid of. But that doesn't even take into consideration the fears that are being put on them by the people that they're surrounded with. Like I said, I can't imagine living without my mom and my dad or my kids for that matter.
So that's, that is a fear that I likely place on them as well.

Angela Franklin: Yeah.
Jamie Callahan: So we're, we've essentially run out of time but I wanna ask you if our listeners were to connect with you and they wanted to learn more about your services, how would they go about getting in touch with you?

Angela Franklin: Yeah journey Home is the organization that my husband and I have, and, the website is Journey, home.care info@journeyhome.care is the email and just reaching out. We provide support for people within Oregon and outside of Oregon, so we're really available. So I, I love it when people reach out. And just wanna have a conversation. And that's typically how it starts, is just a conversation.

Jamie Callahan: Sure. So I, we are gonna close up here, but I wanna share one more thing about Angela that we did not talk about today, and I will probably have her back to talk about this in another episode. She has. Developed a presentation and if you ever catch wind that she is making this presentation around what your burial options look like.
In Oregon, Oregon has some unique laws and opportunities that other states don't have, but even those states that do have them, I think that our general listeners would be shocked to learn. What your options are in today's day and age, a lot of people think that your options are getting buried or getting cremated, but I can tell you I've been to this presentation that she makes now several times.
There's 20 different options and they are remarkable. They will blow your mind. Alright, Angela, thank you so much for being here. This is Jamie Callahan with the Team Senior podcast and we are. So grateful to every one of you that listens to the information that we're bringing to you. And until next time, have a wonderful day.
Thank you for listening to the Team Senior podcast. We're here every week sharing new and relevant information. Remember that we're just a phone call away. Team Senior can be reached at 541-295- 8230. Again, 541-295- 8230. Until next time, this is Jamie Callahan.